A Conversation Over Tea

Here's a conversation from Facebook, names, photos, and identifying links have been removed to protect privacy of the participants. I'll keep this post up to date so long as the conversation keeps rolling. I honestly wasn't expecting her husband to jump in like that, but I'm glad he did, as it gives us some insight into the sort of thinking that goes on in the world of the Tea Party. Notice how points of conversation are dragged in with each successive post that were previously not even part of the dialogue, and the statements between the lines that are seamlessly filled in over time. Personally, I see a big difference between arguing about border security, and arguing for the potential violation of the civil rights of legitimate citizens of this country, yet in stereotypical Tea Party fashion, the whole thing gets bulldozed into one big sticky pile. Do we really want to start allowing for the trampling of the constitutional rights of people in this country, legal or illegal?

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Cheri ********

ORLY??
And who are these "enemies" of which you speak, Mr. Post-Racial President, to ignite such voting fervor within the Hispanic bloc?

Granted, there are plenty of dissenting opinions out there who consider Obama to be an enemy and a threat...... apparently the feeling is mutual!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1AmezuBo4k

Obama Calls Americans ENEMIES & Illegal Mexicans to Make US Pay!

www.youtube.com

This has to be one of the most telling and frightening things a President has ever said. I cannot imagine a time in history where a leader of a country called on foreigners to attack his own people and then call his own people enemies! Illegal aliens are now an enemy in my book. The President has d

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    Pete ******

    I think their enemies are the crazy ass tea party folks, like the ones who want to card every bloody Latino in Arizona or what have you, even when plenty of them are perfectly legal citizens of this country. Sure plenty also aren't citizens, but that whole racial targeting is pretty menacing, especially if you've done nothing wrong. And don't give me that whole "If they haven't done anything wrong they have nothing to be afraid of" line either, because if individuals in law enforcement want to make and issue of something, the evidence keeps showing that they will find whatever they can to make someone's life that much harder.

    
    
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    Cheri ********

    well then call me your enemy, Pete. Where does it say in the legislation to "card every bloody Latino". The racial targeting argument is pure BS. But I'm guessing that like the Health Deform Bill, you haven't even bothered to read it for yourself. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and READ THE DAMN BILL. (It's 16 pages, hope you can handle it)
    
    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
    
    And if us "crazy ass tea party folks" are the enemies instead of dissenting fellow citizens....... then what message is "the Great Uniter" sending out to all Americans?

    
    
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    Pete ******

    Ok, first of all, I was explaining the language and the thinking, but you seemed to have glossed over that. Secondly, I sincerely doubt you read anything about the Health Reform Bill, you glossed over it at best. Where are your death panels now? And Do you really expect me to think you're not busy enough that you can just read all this damn legislation al over the country?
    
    I'm reading your damn bill, and straight off in Sec 2B it refers to determining immigration status when reasonable suspicion exists. Sec 2E goes on to say that police can arrest, without warrant, anyone who they have probable cause to believe that the person should be removed from the country. Sec 92 talks about driving without a license or permit. Who would be targeted to present their drivers licences I wonder, oh yeah, maybe Latino drivers in the state. Granted this would keep unlicensed drivers off the roads, but you asked where it mentioned carding people. Remember, valid drivers licences require citizenship. The rest of the bill deals primarily with hiring migratory workers, and doesn't seem to go too far, though I am less than happy with the wording of some things in Sec 5.
    
    Also, don't start using terms interchangeably on me here, if your compatriots are going to call people the enemy, you can't get all indignant when someone calls then an enemy instead of "dissenting fellow citizens."

    
    
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    Cheri ********

    it's one thing when people rip each other to shreds on their own level, in the media, in public debates, etc. it's quite another when OUR NATION'S LEADER WHO IS IN POLITICAL POWER is doing it to his own citizens to divide them. not surprised, I've been called racist by him and his ilk before, they are elitist snobs who sneer down upon you and me. we are commoners to them and it enrages them when some people refuse to kiss their feet. it's sad to see that his hateful rhetoric influences so many people, especially friends.
    
    the only cases in which reasonable suspicion applies is when the individual(s) are already violating traffic law. aka, drunk driving, reckless driving, speeding, etc. what happens when you get pulled over for violating traffic laws, Pete? the police ask you for your driver's license. at that point, it will be pretty obvious whether or not someone is legal to be in the country. the courts are not going to deport someone just because a racist officer pulls over a Latino/a, and it is likely that said officer would be put on probation, or some sort of punishment. All the Arizona bill does is re-enforce the same thing that the Federal law says.... if only our government would actually enforce it, Arizona wouldn't have to do the dirty work themselves.
    
    I think it's sad that you'd rather risk the lives of citizens and legal immigrants to an open and undefended border, which countless drugs and weapons are being sneaked across, than risk offending a particular ethnic group. in case you haven't noticed, accusations of racism has always been an a cop-out argument, since the day Obama won the presidency. Don't like Obama's policies? you're a racist. potential threat to political power? you're a racist. exposure of radical associations and past actions? you're a racist. It's always the same brain-dead excuse. I doubt it's for a show of embracing ethnic diversity, more like pandering to buy votes.
    
    no, Pete, I spent weeks reading that waste of paper of Health care Deform, and it was a bloody headache. the only way to actually know what the hell everything was in that bill is if you've dumped tens of thousands of dollars into law school, thus learning the legislative language, and can make a living at the same time. sorry, but legislation should not be that extensive with pretzel-like language, it's sneaky and prevents the average American (and all those lower class poor people, the uneducated, and minorities you must be convincing yourself that you're so concerned about) from being able to decipher their fate, let alone have a say in it.
    
    STOP stereotyping me, I never once said anything about death panels. My bone to pick with it is the mandates. My money is my money, my health is my responsibility. If I choose to pay for insurance or pay the doctor myself in cash (which I have been doing for the past 3 years, and haven't DIED yet: "OMG but the President said that people would die if they weren't covered!"), that is MY CHOICE and MY RIGHT. I don't want the earnings of my time and work I invested to take care of me and my family to be further snatched away for the disposal of a faceless bureaucracy, nor do I want anyone else's earnings stolen from them.
    
    the problem that I see you having is the eagerness to group people with whom you disagree instead of being all open-minded and crap. i guess the open-mindedness ends whenever it loses it's convenience factor.

    
    
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    Pete ******

    Where the fuck did I say anything about an undefended border?! Not to mention that border patrol is on a list of jobs I'd consider. My issue is when cops start racial profiling, and then make up their reasonable suspicion. For crying out loud, even as of the 90s we were seeing it happen to black folks in this country, what makes you think latinos aren't going to have similar problems? I see what the so called intent of the bill is, but it leaves some pretty big loopholes. Also, I love how there isn't an issue of licensing for farming equipment, what they call husbandry, but then they go into all that stuff about hiring illegals who would no doubt be using that same equipment if hired.
    
    Also, I'm not stereotyping you because you disagree with me, I'm stereotyping you because of the mindless rhetoric you spout is exactly as stupid as the rest of the mindless rhetoric the tea party spews out. It's all ideals and pictures, but lacking an element of critical thought that shows a fundamental lack of understand of the government, fellow citizens, and science in general. Don't get me wrong, there are crackpots on my side too, but they've been far less vocal as of late, and haven't tried to create some sort of silly party that divides the power on this side of the fence. I can't help that 90% of the irrational bullshit I've heard has come from the right, mostly the far right. If you're with the tea party, you're with them for better or worse, your vote in their favor is a vote for all the crazy crap they say, so even if you don't say it yourself, your vote is the next best thing. Mind you I don't type all conservatives, just your crazy ilk. Also, I can't believe that the democrats of all people are being called bourgeois when so many of the rich folk are republican, perhaps trying to pass themselves off as paupers, but rich all the same.

    
    
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    Aaron ***** ********

    I have to say, profiling works.
    if you don't like that the majority of crime is committed by people of a certain race. then tell that race to stop being more bad so we can all get along and commit crime equally. (like that's possible)
    
    kiss my ass pete; racial profiling works.

    
    
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    Cheri ********

    Whatever Pete. It looks like you've been absorbed into the mindless collective and have chosen to abandon civil disagreement for loathing and denial.
    
    It's quite clear that you take satisfaction in gobbling up and regurgitating every narrow-minded, hateful slur against Tea Party members that you can find, despite proof that they consist of all races, all ages, all political spectrums, and both genders. Just look at the colorful election results of Conservatives! Tim Scott (Black), Marco Rubio (Latino), Susana Martinez (Latina), Nikki Haley (Indian American), and many more! C'mon, for a guy like you who boasts racial diversity and equality, this should be a moment of triumph for you too! ;-)
    
    Feel free to keep on posting, I likely won't be responding on this thread again because I'm done here.

    
    
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    Pete ****** Wait, so Aaron, you're saying that a) the legislation would lead to racial profiling, and b) that it would be a good thing? Am I getting this right?

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      Aaron ***** ******* A) that i don't give a fuck about racial profiling being led to or not, and B) that I agree with racial profiling.

      
      

      Cheri ********

      personally, i don't condone racial profiling.
      for all the faux fears about AZ's new law being racist, only the haters are blind to their own hypocrisy of stereotyping the Tea Parties as being a bunch of "crazy" stupid white people, all thewhile championing racial equality, HA! if the radical leftists in the media and Washington hadn't been so busy defaming and pissing off everyone who got wise to their lies, maybe they wouldn't be bitterly crying over their losses from this year's election!